Comic Template change?

[Jamie]

I vote for #2.

Simplicity is nice. (Plus less of a drain on the servers)

[Roygbiv666]

Here's another idea. Since the Character templates have a "Creators" field, what about auto-categorizing the creators listed into "Category:Bob Kane/Creator" or something?

Anyone?

As stated in previous posts, it is not impossible to achieve, but the real reason it hasn't been done yet is the lack of continuity between all of the 'Creators' fields.
For example, I did a simple search for | Creators =, and here are some of the different values that came up on the first 1000 hits:

| Creators = Bill Everett
| Creators = [[Jack Kirby]]
| Creators = Stan Lee Steve Ditko (Admittedly, I changed this one to: Stan Lee; Steve Ditko)
| Creators = Chris Claremont, Dave Cockrum
| Creators = [[Fabian Nicieza]], [[Rob Liefeld]]
| Creators = Gardner Fox and Syd Shores
| Creators = [[Sean McKeever]] and [[Mike Norton]]
| Creators = [[D.G. Chichester]], [[Margaret Clark]], and [[Klaus Janson]]
| Creators = Sal Buscema, Mike Esposito, Don Glut, John Tartag
| Creators = Fabian Nicieza & Kevin Maguire
| Creators = Bob Layton; Jackson Guice
| Creators = [[Fabian Nicieza]]; [[Tony Daniel|Antonio Daniel]]
| Creators = John Ostrander; Joe Edkin; Ivan Reis
| Creators = [[Grant Morrison]] (writer), [[Ethan van Sciver]] (artist)
| Creators = [[Stan Lee]] (story) and [[Jack Kirby]] (art).
| Creators = Group of Marvel Comics staff: Tom DeFalco, John Romita Jr., Louise Simonson, and Roger Stern
| Creators = The character of Guardian was created by writer [[Chris Claremont]] and later expanded upon by [[John Byrne]]
| Creators = (I)Roy Thomas, John Buscema; (II)Allan Heinberg, Jim Cheung

So you can quickly see that though the main parts of the information are all in there, they are all stated in a LOT of different ways. This is the reason that making this field auto-categorize is difficult. (Not impossible, by a long-shot, but hours of programming difficult for sure).

There are two ways I can accomplish the goal:

1. I can design and implement a complex "Creators Standardization" Template, much like the Comic Name Standardization Template, that takes the variable input of the Creators Field and tries to break it down in a bunch of different ways to get the actual names within the field.
The drawbacks to using this strategy are two-fold: It takes a LOT of time, because the differences are difficult to program around, and Jamie has told me previously that over-complicated templates (like the one previously stated), can slow down the page load time, especially for users that aren't utilizing a broadband or better connection.
The positive aspect to this strategy is that once the template is completed, it becomes VERY easy to stick it into other templates around the site, say the Race, Vehicle, Item, and Location templates, to name a few.

2. I can write a much simpler Creators Standardization Template, that as M1 stated, would take only one specific way for the info to be put into the field, say all the creators separated by semi-colons, and easily output the text and categories accordingly. The drawbacks to this strategy are: If anything is put into the Creators field that doesn't match up with the specific pattern, (CreatorName or CreatorName; CreatorName2 or CreatorName; CreatorName2; CreatorName3), it will come back as regular text, with no categorization or linkage, plus, a Bot program will still have to be written to search all of the Creators fields on the database, recognize which pieces are actual creator's names, and change the field correctly. So the Bot program will still have to be written to overcome all of the differences shown above, and this program would have to be run pretty much over almost every page on the site, which takes some time. There is also no real way to ensure that people using the templates both understand the change that was made, and comply with the new way to input the information. The positive aspect to this strategy is keeping the page load time for a given page down, and keeping the template code on the site simple, and therefore easy to understand.

So with all of that said, M1's code:

If we do something like this, then the commands to put on the template pages would be:
{{#if: {{{Creators|}}} | [[Category:{{{Creators}}}/Creations]] | }}
{{#if: {{{Creator|}}} | [[Category:{{{Creator}}}/Creations]] | }}

and the command on the Staff page (under each "sub-[if]-section") would be:
{{#ifexist: Category:{{PAGENAME}}/Creations | * [[:Category:{{PAGENAME}}/Creations|{{PAGENAME}}/Creations]] }}
{{#ifexist: Category:{{{RealName}}}/Creations | * [[:Category:{{{RealName}}}/Creations|{{{RealName}}}/Creations]] }}
{{#ifexist: Category:{{{Pseudonyms}}}/Creations | * [[:Category:{{{Pseudonyms}}}/Creations|{{{Pseudonyms}}}/Creations]] }}

is the starting point for either situation. Incorporating a link to the /Creator or /Creations Category page is very easy to put into the Staff template, and it would even be easy to put together a little header for those Category pages. (In case you guys haven't noticed, I feel that a Category with no information in it beyond the articles listed in it isn't very fun to look at, {Take a look at New York State, Ben Raab/Writer and Vampires for examples}).

The ability for the creator information to auto-categorize a list of characters created by a creator has been my #1 wish for quite a while now. WHOEVER makes it possible will be my new hero.

Can and will be done, my good man, all in due time.

PS, For those of you who are not currently aware of the 'Comic Name Standardization Template', it is a GREAT little template that will take a common name for a comic, and attempt to create a link to the actual comic page it's referring to. The most common usage of it is if you know the book you're talking about is the first volume, like Uncanny X-Men #15, all you'd have to type is: {{Cnst|Uncanny X-Men #15}}, and you'll get back a beautiful link ([[Comics:Uncanny X-Men Vol 1 15|Uncanny X-Men #15]]) to the actual page. This template covers MANY different types of common names, so if a link isn't returned for what you've put into it there's a very good chance the comic's page doesn't exist. (Though the template is not 100% complete, since periods and commas don't work: i.e.: 'Captain America Vol. 2 #4' would NOT link to Comics:Captain America Vol 2 4).

PPS, For those with ADD, I apologize for this post being so long.

Did anything ever happen with this? I know you did some cleanup on the "Created By" fields, but I don't think the Categories were ever set up.

[Peteparker]

Yea, we never really decided what the categories should be named, so the fields are all cleaned up, waiting for us to categorize them the right way!

[Roygbiv666]

Yea, we never really decided what the categories should be named, so the fields are all cleaned up, waiting for us to categorize them the right way!

Hmm. Well, should we set up some kind of "vote" thing?

I think the options are:
Category:Bob Kane/Creator
Category:Bob Kane/Creations

For some reason, I'm leaning towards "Creations" since when you go to the Category page, it would be a list of characters or things.

Anyone?

[GrnMarvl14]

Both really have their benefits. Bob Kane/Creator would read like "Bob Kane, Creator" and work as a nice headline for the category page, though Bob Kane/Creations would read just as nicely and seem more like preparing a list, instead of just headlining one. ...So what I'm saying is that we should just close our eyes and point to one. Unless someone can honestly come up with a reason why one is better than the other. Then I say we just go with that. I think I've just started rambling now...

[m1shawhan]

I tend to agree with GrnMarvel...

Bob Kane/Creator - when you say it it sounds cool, but is kind of odd when what will actually be IN the category would be Bob Kane's creations. We went through the same choice when we decided whether "Category:African" would hold all the people from Africa or we have another category "Category:Africans", because what you have in the category are Africans not African....you guys get what I mean.

I think that "Bob Kane/Creations" fits best and we can link to it on the Staff template too via an "ifexist" that reads "Creations by {{{PAGENAME}}}".

[Peteparker]

So that's two votes for /Creations, and one vote for /Creator, right?

I like them both and can't decide. How many more votes should we take? Should we start a poll?

[Roygbiv666]

So that's two votes for /Creations, and one vote for /Creator, right?

I like them both and can't decide. How many more votes should we take? Should we start a poll?

I guess we let this drop ... should we do a vote?

[m1shawhan]

Yes. Starting one right now. Same topic name.

Here's the link, just in case.

[m1shawhan]

Ok..I couldn't wait....had to test it out myself to see if it was even plausible and it was a WHOLE lot easier than I anticipated. Check out the tests and see what you think.

Template here.

Character Test here

Category created here


All we would need is to add the commands on the template test (at the bottom of the template) to the current one or change it if the forum comes up with another name. We would then need to add a code in the staff template to "show" the Categories on the staff member's page if it exists. Bing-Bang-Boom! Or is it Fin-Fang-Foom!

[GrnMarvl14]

Congratulations. You are my new hero. Where would you like the statue erected?

[Peteparker]

Heh heh heh, you said erected, and I'm immature.

[GrnMarvl14]

Heh heh heh, you said erected, and I'm immature.

I almost said "built", but how often do you get to legitimately say "erected" in a normal conversation/post?

[m1shawhan]

Funny thing is that it would have been just as funny if you were saying it out of context.